I received a book for Christmas from my Aunt and Uncle titled "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. It is a very interesting survey of the theology of heaven, a subject that I have previously thought very little about.
At any rate, I am coming to notice that I have a very underdeveloped sense of what the "Curse" actually was (when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, and the whole universe was "Cursed" because of it).
I'm coming at this from a sort of scientific perspective, and some thoughts I've had are entropy, chaos, moral corruption, removal of some ordering property, etc. In fact, I've noticed that I don't really even have a clear understanding of what is wrong with creation now (the world, not humanity), other than symptomatic: dirty, painful, tiring, etc. Is granite or diamond, for instance, somehow in a fallen state? Do I perceive anything wrong with flowers and trees? How about weeds?
So much of what I think of as "wrong" is just things happening globally where I think they should happen locally. As an example, weeds are fine, and some are beautiful, just not in my flower beds.
Much to think about...
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I have also pondered how things would work without the curse. Isiah 65:17-25 describes what Earth would look like without a curse. Probably the most well know verse from this passage is verse 25:
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
Now, this is a description of the New Earth, but I think that it is also a good description of how Earth would work without the Curse.
Other things described in the passage:
* Infants won't die shortly after birth.
* Almost everyone will live to at least a hundred.
* No one will not toil in vain.
Scientifically all of this is impossible. Just something like a lion eating straw, would probably require fundamental changes in body structure and chemistry. A lion is very well designed to be a carnivore. It probably would do very poorly forced to fend for itself on an all plant diet. Although I did find an article on a creationist website that claimed a lion would not eat meat and lived on cooked grains, eggs and milk.
But extending this to a broader scope. The whole Animal Kingdom is based on food chains. Will the spider not eat the fly. Will the gecko not eat the spider. Will the bird not eat the gecko. Or take bacteria in the ocean their can be 600,000 cells per ml of seawater. They double every hour yet the population stays constant. So 600 thousand bacteria per ml per hour die. That is a lot of death. Would all of this stop?
Can I borrow that book when you're through?
Great post and thoughts, Paul. I often find myself pondering similar things regarding the look and "feel" of the New World, and what today would be like if it wasn't for "the curse"/fall of man? I know we're not supposed to meddle in the secrets of God, but it's still interesting to think about. Along the lines of what Leppard (not sure which one) brought up: Is the "food chain" a result of the curse or will animals still eat each other in the New World; If they do, will they still have to hunt one another or will the weaker submissively surrender to the stronger; Will we eat animals or is death going to be non-existent for all creatures? Kind of hard for me to wrap my mind around that one...don't see how it's possible. I even think about details like will we perspire...and if so will, will we funk when we do so (yes, my mind is an odd and dangerous place)? Will business and commerce exist? What about all the advancements (including technology) that has come about in this life? Will they all go away? Will we go back to running around naked...I guess that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (I'll be sure to bring my bowler hat...sorry for the visual)?
I know many people have argued that the things we enjoy in this life won’t exist in the New World because we won’t need them. I have a hard time believing them via said argument because I believe God has blessed us with many things we don't necessarily need for survival, but have been given them that we may enjoy His glory and know Him better.
Though I'm often left with more questions than answers after thinking about such things, what I do know is what WONT exist in the New World is any resemblance of separation between God and His Creation (whether it be physical mental or spiritual). We will once again walk the earth with God in perfect communion and glory, just as our first parents did prior to the fall. Though the details are unclear the hope is real and brilliant.
Anyway, thanks for the post (and the opportunity to comment/ramble). I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
Paul, I finally updated my sidebar a bit and you have the star position at the bottom! (That's what you get for having a blog that starts with a "W".) Glad you enjoyed the book. The study of and a good theology of the fall of man and its results is key to understanding absolutely everything else in God's Word. Without that a person is on very shaky ground. It definitely lays the foundation for all else.
I personally think that some animals either very much evolved after the fall, or were only created during or after the fall.
For instance, all those decay-inducing bacterias etc. probably didn't exist before the fall since there was no (or not much) decay/death. And when you think about it, there were probably no roaches either, since their purpose is to eat mildew or mold.
I don't know. I've just always assumed roaches and mosquitos and viruses were just a part of the curse and came after the fall.
I know a lot of people who have read "Heaven", and I am planning on reading it too, if I have time during my studies. I love pondering the unanswerable questions about Heaven.
Paul, Kent recommends the book by R.C. Sproul called What is Reformed Theology. He says to especially concentrate on chap. 6
Paul- I just read this in Spurgeon's Morning and Evening devotional and thought I'd share:
"Why, that Lamb is heaven itself; for as good Rutherford says, "Heaven and Christ are the same thing;" to be with Christ is to be in heaven, and to be in heaven is to be with Christ."
What a powerful statement. The essence of heaven, what we should really be concerned with and overjoyed by, is that we will have perfect communion with the Father, Son, and Spirit, in their full glory. The way we can become more excited about Heaven, is by knowing more about God through his Word. The more we know more about Him, the more we will desire that deep and perfect communion, and the more we will value our promise of Heaven.
A fascinating discussion, with interesting ramifications. You all raise interesting questions and I am once again reminded of 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
I'm not quite sure how it will all work out, but I can't wait to find out. Let us all continue to pray, "come quickly Lord Jesus."
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